radioguy
2008-10-31 00:46:47 UTC
x-n0-archive:yes
as ham radio, frs, and gmrs.
Even if HFA (hams for action) is successful in forcing homeowners
associations to allow cb and ham antennas, you
STILL won't be able to use them since most homeowner associations now
prohibit the actual transmissions theirselves
of CB and ham radio.
Some even prevent all radio transmissions on the hoa property
including frs and gmrs and
whatever else.
I was looking for apartments. One county said that by law, whenever
you move to anywhere within that county, you must
join a homeowners' association. It's the law.
Some people say move into a house there without a hoa and without
CC&Rs.
Nope. That doesn't work. take a look at the law again. Whenever you
move to ANYWHERE within that county, INCLUDING
a non hoa non CC&R house, then BY LAW, you MUST JOIN a HOA. Then the
formerly non hoa non CC&R house automatically becomes a HOA controlled
CC&R restricted house.
And if you don't, you're breaking the law and liens can be placed on
your house by whetever hoa decides to file a
lawsuit against you.
And from what I've read, courts have been continually ruling in favor
of the hoas in most of the instances.
And more and more cities, counties, and I've heard even some states,
are following suit.
And people have already said that the FCC said they don't have any
authority over it since counties forcing you
to involuntarily join A HOA is you voulantarily agreeing to join a hoa
and the hoa rules.
Some people say transmit mobile
Nope. That doesn't work either.
Most current hoa rules are worded something like "no cb or ham radio
transmissions are allowed on hoa property or
any area controlled by the hoa.
From what other hams said, I originally thought this meant you were
safe as long as you were transmitting from off of
hoa property. (And so did they).
Nope. It turns out that even if you're transmitting from off of the
hoa property, if your signal is receivable on hoa property,
it IS "transmitting ON Hoa property and on areas controlled by the
hoa" and you are in violation of both the hoa rules and
laws.
Otherwise the rules would be worded "no transmitting from hoa
property" instead of being worded "no transmitting on
hoa property".
Some hoas have already went after hams who tried that.
One ham thought he was obeying his hoa rules by transmitting from the
public streets around town, not the hoa
controlled streets, but only from the public city owned streets around
town and his hoa fined him for it and went after
him for it.
Another ham did deliberately disobey his hoa rules by transmitting in
secret with low power on two meters.
Even though his hoa rules said "no CB or ham radio transmissions
allowed".
Neighbors heard him on their scanner, reported it to the hoa, he was
fined and took it to court.
His lawyer argued that since other peole in the hoa constantly use
their frs/gmrs radios, it was selective enforcement by
the hoa and therefore illegal acts by the hoa.
The judge ruled that since frs/gmrs radios do not require a federal
license, they are allowed and perfectly illegal, and
since ham radio requires a federal license they are not allowed even
if you have a federal license to operate one and
therefore illegal.
There are several things I find curious about the judge's ruling.
In no particular order,
1. Since when do GMRS radios NOT require a federal license to
operate???
2. Why were the frs/gmrs radios still allowed? FRS IS CB. If you don't
belive me, just take a look at the FCC rules.
And the hoa rules clearly said no cb transmissions allowed.
3. Since unlicensed radios are allowed and legal, does this mean th
ham can put up a CB antenna in violation of the
hoa rules since CB doesn't require a federal license and the judge
already said that radios which do not require
a federal license are okay and legal to operate, even on hoa property?
So there's at least two instances, in two different places where
legally, unlicensed part 15 devices legally have legal priority over
federally licensed part 97 devices.
Some people say just operate portable.
Nope. A couple of cities near me have passed laws that while not
mentioning CB or ham specifically as far as I know,
does in effect make them illegal to use at certain times or
alltogether.
One of the cities (soorry. I don't remmember which one) passed a ban
on portable cell phone use.
Yes, portable, not just mobile.
Their reasoning was that it violates the disturbing the peace law
since other people passing by you while you're
walking in the parking lot, in the store, or on the public sidewalks
can hear you talking to the other person on the cell
phone.
Now this law while as far as I know not actually mentioning CB or ham
radio makes CB and ham radio users twice as
guilty of breaking the law since the passerbys hear not only you
talking to the other person on the radio, but also hear
the other person on the radio talking to you.
the city says such devices are to only be used from your home. They're
not allowed to be used in public.
But you can't use them from home because of hoa rules.
The hoas say such devices should only be used in public off of hoa
property.
But the city says not in public, only from home.
So you end up in court in both cases and having to pay fines in both
cases.
So in effect, frs, gmrs, cb radio and ham radio are now illegal in
that city.
And other cities will probably soon be following suit.
Which means that eventually , cb and ham radio will be illegal
everwhere in the U.S. since the FCC refused to get
involved on the grounds of them "not having any authority over it
since it's voulantary contract law".
Some people say place a restriction on your home that it can never
ever be controlled by hoas or CC&Rs.
Doesn't work either. When you try that, they just take over it by
"emnint domain".
Although I don't know how land developers got "eminint domain" over
certain places since I thought only the government
could do that, but I've seen it happen.
Some people living in homes built before HOAs and CC&Rs came to their
neighborhood ended up with hoas placing
liens on their homes for refusing to join hoas.
I thought that's a violation of the ex-post-facto laws of the U.S.
Constitution.
People tried to take the hoas to court using that defense.
I only read about one person being sucessful with that defense.
From what I read, the majority who tried that defense ended up losing
in court, because the courts ruled that since
the hoas are not governments, the laws of the U.S. constitution
preventing the government from enacting ex-post-facto
laws does not apply to the hoas and therefore, the hoas can legally
place a lien on your non HOA non CC&R house
for you refusing to join the hoa (even though there's nothing else
anywhere saying they can take ovver your land) and
can legally force you to join the hoa while living in non hoa non CC&R
houses.
(From what I read, mostly Illinois courts, but some other places
also).
It's actually illegal here to use wireless hands free devices, and was
before there were even cell phones. Because
it was proven to be more dangerous.
yet somehow, the cell phone companies have gotten away with breaking
the law banning them and they are sold in
stores around here. Although illegal.
--
http://NewsReader.Com/
well, it looks like CB will soon be illegal here in the U.S. as wellhttp://NewsReader.Com/
as ham radio, frs, and gmrs.
Even if HFA (hams for action) is successful in forcing homeowners
associations to allow cb and ham antennas, you
STILL won't be able to use them since most homeowner associations now
prohibit the actual transmissions theirselves
of CB and ham radio.
Some even prevent all radio transmissions on the hoa property
including frs and gmrs and
whatever else.
I was looking for apartments. One county said that by law, whenever
you move to anywhere within that county, you must
join a homeowners' association. It's the law.
Some people say move into a house there without a hoa and without
CC&Rs.
Nope. That doesn't work. take a look at the law again. Whenever you
move to ANYWHERE within that county, INCLUDING
a non hoa non CC&R house, then BY LAW, you MUST JOIN a HOA. Then the
formerly non hoa non CC&R house automatically becomes a HOA controlled
CC&R restricted house.
And if you don't, you're breaking the law and liens can be placed on
your house by whetever hoa decides to file a
lawsuit against you.
And from what I've read, courts have been continually ruling in favor
of the hoas in most of the instances.
And more and more cities, counties, and I've heard even some states,
are following suit.
And people have already said that the FCC said they don't have any
authority over it since counties forcing you
to involuntarily join A HOA is you voulantarily agreeing to join a hoa
and the hoa rules.
Some people say transmit mobile
Nope. That doesn't work either.
Most current hoa rules are worded something like "no cb or ham radio
transmissions are allowed on hoa property or
any area controlled by the hoa.
From what other hams said, I originally thought this meant you were
safe as long as you were transmitting from off of
hoa property. (And so did they).
Nope. It turns out that even if you're transmitting from off of the
hoa property, if your signal is receivable on hoa property,
it IS "transmitting ON Hoa property and on areas controlled by the
hoa" and you are in violation of both the hoa rules and
laws.
Otherwise the rules would be worded "no transmitting from hoa
property" instead of being worded "no transmitting on
hoa property".
Some hoas have already went after hams who tried that.
One ham thought he was obeying his hoa rules by transmitting from the
public streets around town, not the hoa
controlled streets, but only from the public city owned streets around
town and his hoa fined him for it and went after
him for it.
Another ham did deliberately disobey his hoa rules by transmitting in
secret with low power on two meters.
Even though his hoa rules said "no CB or ham radio transmissions
allowed".
Neighbors heard him on their scanner, reported it to the hoa, he was
fined and took it to court.
His lawyer argued that since other peole in the hoa constantly use
their frs/gmrs radios, it was selective enforcement by
the hoa and therefore illegal acts by the hoa.
The judge ruled that since frs/gmrs radios do not require a federal
license, they are allowed and perfectly illegal, and
since ham radio requires a federal license they are not allowed even
if you have a federal license to operate one and
therefore illegal.
There are several things I find curious about the judge's ruling.
In no particular order,
1. Since when do GMRS radios NOT require a federal license to
operate???
2. Why were the frs/gmrs radios still allowed? FRS IS CB. If you don't
belive me, just take a look at the FCC rules.
And the hoa rules clearly said no cb transmissions allowed.
3. Since unlicensed radios are allowed and legal, does this mean th
ham can put up a CB antenna in violation of the
hoa rules since CB doesn't require a federal license and the judge
already said that radios which do not require
a federal license are okay and legal to operate, even on hoa property?
So there's at least two instances, in two different places where
legally, unlicensed part 15 devices legally have legal priority over
federally licensed part 97 devices.
Some people say just operate portable.
Nope. A couple of cities near me have passed laws that while not
mentioning CB or ham specifically as far as I know,
does in effect make them illegal to use at certain times or
alltogether.
One of the cities (soorry. I don't remmember which one) passed a ban
on portable cell phone use.
Yes, portable, not just mobile.
Their reasoning was that it violates the disturbing the peace law
since other people passing by you while you're
walking in the parking lot, in the store, or on the public sidewalks
can hear you talking to the other person on the cell
phone.
Now this law while as far as I know not actually mentioning CB or ham
radio makes CB and ham radio users twice as
guilty of breaking the law since the passerbys hear not only you
talking to the other person on the radio, but also hear
the other person on the radio talking to you.
the city says such devices are to only be used from your home. They're
not allowed to be used in public.
But you can't use them from home because of hoa rules.
The hoas say such devices should only be used in public off of hoa
property.
But the city says not in public, only from home.
So you end up in court in both cases and having to pay fines in both
cases.
So in effect, frs, gmrs, cb radio and ham radio are now illegal in
that city.
And other cities will probably soon be following suit.
Which means that eventually , cb and ham radio will be illegal
everwhere in the U.S. since the FCC refused to get
involved on the grounds of them "not having any authority over it
since it's voulantary contract law".
Some people say place a restriction on your home that it can never
ever be controlled by hoas or CC&Rs.
Doesn't work either. When you try that, they just take over it by
"emnint domain".
Although I don't know how land developers got "eminint domain" over
certain places since I thought only the government
could do that, but I've seen it happen.
Some people living in homes built before HOAs and CC&Rs came to their
neighborhood ended up with hoas placing
liens on their homes for refusing to join hoas.
I thought that's a violation of the ex-post-facto laws of the U.S.
Constitution.
People tried to take the hoas to court using that defense.
I only read about one person being sucessful with that defense.
From what I read, the majority who tried that defense ended up losing
in court, because the courts ruled that since
the hoas are not governments, the laws of the U.S. constitution
preventing the government from enacting ex-post-facto
laws does not apply to the hoas and therefore, the hoas can legally
place a lien on your non HOA non CC&R house
for you refusing to join the hoa (even though there's nothing else
anywhere saying they can take ovver your land) and
can legally force you to join the hoa while living in non hoa non CC&R
houses.
(From what I read, mostly Illinois courts, but some other places
also).
It's actually illegal here to use wireless hands free devices, and was
before there were even cell phones. Because
it was proven to be more dangerous.
yet somehow, the cell phone companies have gotten away with breaking
the law banning them and they are sold in
stores around here. Although illegal.