How do you find out what hoa CC&R restrictions are?

[radioguy]

x-no-archive: yes

As some of you know, I plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.

ButHow do you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

You can't here in the U.S.. It's impossible.I can't afford a lawyer.
And legal aid always refused to help. The clerks in the courthouses
always say they're not allowed to me nor give me any papers unless I
have a lawyer because that is the courts helping me with legal matters
which is against state law. (according to them).

They say only a lawyer is allowed to file a request for copies of
those.

So just because I am not rich enough to be able to hire a lawyer,
there is NO possible way for me to find out what any HOA CC&R
restrictions are or even what any non-HOA CC&R restrictions are until
after I have already moved in and after I have already signed and
agreed to move in.

Which I haven't done yet.

And it's very possible that I could end up with hoa restrictions like
this other ham had which he posted about last year in 2007 where the
hoa fines you for wearing the clothes you have to wear your
extracurricular activities or hobbies when you leave to go those
activities and hobbies, and fines you for what you do inside your own
house or garage, and fines you for what kind of food you eat inside
your own home.

Here is a copy of that ham's post:

"Looks, to me, like some reasonable efforts to limit the extreme and
unbridled power some homeowner associations have attained. When house
hunting, I encountered one that even said I couldn't change the oil in
my car inside my own garage!!"

Does your HOA have a rule about what kind of food you can cook, the
style / color of clothes you can wear, or other outlandish rules too?

I have family that once lived in a place with a HOA that levied fines
against them because their kids (my cousins) wore the usual teen - age
style clothing appropriate to the skating hobby, and a board member
viewed it as threatening.

Another fine was levied against them because they cooked and consumed
food that another family living next to them didn't like. The neighbor
went and made up some petty excuse about how it had ill effects on
them, and they were fined for non-compliance regarding "Air pollution"
in the sub-division. Until they moved, they had to cook and consume
only certain ethnic foods other than the good ole american stuff.

[Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names]

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
 ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?
You can't here in the U.S.. It's impossible.I  can't afford a lawyer.
And legal aid always refused to help. The clerks in the courthouses
always say they're not allowed to me nor give me any papers unless I
have a lawyer because that is the courts helping me with legal matters
which is against state law. (according to them).
They say only a lawyer is allowed to file a request for copies of
those.
So just because I am not rich enough to be able to hire a lawyer,
there is NO possible way for me to find out what any HOA CC&R
restrictions are or even what any non-HOA CC&R restrictions are until
after I have already moved in and after I have already signed and
agreed to move in.
Which I haven't done yet.
And it's very possible that I could  end up with hoa restrictions like
this other ham had which he posted about last year in 2007 where the
hoa fines you for wearing the clothes you have to wear your
extracurricular activities or hobbies when you leave to go those
activities and hobbies, and fines you for what you do inside your own
house or garage, and fines you for what kind of food you eat inside
your own home.
"Looks, to me, like some reasonable efforts to limit the extreme and
unbridled power some homeowner associations have attained. When house
hunting, I encountered one that even said I couldn't change the oil in
my car inside my own garage!!"
Does your HOA have a rule about what kind of food you can cook, the
style / color of clothes you can wear, or other outlandish rules too?
I have family that once lived in a place with a HOA that levied fines
against them because their kids (my cousins) wore the usual teen - age
style clothing appropriate to the skating hobby, and a board member
viewed it as threatening.
Another fine was levied against them because they cooked and consumed
food that another family living next to them didn't like. The neighbor
went and made up some petty excuse about how it had ill effects on
them, and they were fined for non-compliance regarding "Air pollution"
in the sub-division. Until they moved, they had to cook and consume
only certain ethnic foods other than the good ole american stuff.

As a result of 28 years of military service and losing a home to
Hurricane Katrina, I have moved a lot -- 29 moves since 1967. I have
bought and sold six houses and built three. IN EVERY CASE where there
was a HOA or POA, I asked the real estate agent with whom I was
working to give me a copy of the covenants and I had them within
hours.

HOA/POA CC&R are public information, on file in your local courthouse
along with the deeds and property transfer records.

Also, you could simply knock on the door of a home in the
neighborhood, introduce yourself, find out who is the HOA president,
and ask him/her for a copy.

[radioguy]

Post by Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names
HOA/POA CC&R are public information, on file in your local courthouse
along with the deeds and property transfer records.

Not according to the courts and law here. After the courthouse clerks'
claims, I looked up the law on the internet and there really is an
actual law herewhich makes it illegal for the courthouse employees or
anyone else to give you a copy of those recods unless it's to a
lawyer who has requested them, and makes it illegal for you to recieve
a copy of tem by anyone unless you have a lawyer to get them. They're
not public records since the public is NOT allowed to get copies of
them, only lawyers are. I also thought they were public records from
what everyone else was saying on the internet, until I actualy found
out otherwise by actually being down at the courthouse.

So once again, just because I'm not rich enough to hire a lawyer,
there is no freaking possible way I can find out what any CC&R
restrictions are or even whether there's a hoa or not in the place I'm
moving into until AFTER I have already signed an agreement to move in
there.

Since they don't give you copies of the CC&Rs unti AFTER you have
already agreed to move in and since you can't get copies off CC&Rs
before you make an agreement to move in and can't even find out if
there is even a hoa there or not before you move in since it is
illegal to do so since they are NOT public records, by law.

This is just more of the usual government discrimination against poor
people since poor people are not allowed to get copies of HOA or CC&R
restrictions before they make an agreement to move into any place
while rich people are allowed to get such copies before making an
agreement to move into any place since they can afford a lawyer who
are the only ones allowed to request and get such documents.

then the hoa nazis finee you for not wearing the clothes they want you
to be wearing, for things you do INSIDE of your own home even where
they can't see what you're doing, and for eating normal American food
here in America since it made one non-American family living in a HOA
here in America sick and nauseous to see Americans eating American
food.

So the American family had to eat only non-American foods that the
other hoa family agreed with which the American family wasnt used to
and made the American family sick and nauseous because of hoa rules
that that was the only food they were allowed to eat in their own home
from now on.

From my understanding, it was a completely separate house, not a condo
or townhome.

And hams, that does have to do with ham radio. I just forgot to put
that in my first post since I was tired. See below.

You don't see me going over to the Arab countries and telling them
they have to stop eating goats eyes and such stuff just becauser it
makes me sick and nauseous to see that.

And it doesn't even have to be THAT foreign.

You don't see me over in Australia telling them that they all have to
stop eatng Vegemite just because it makes us Americans sick and
nauseous to see them eating it.

My mom and step--dad threw out Vegemite I ordered because it made her
sick from the looks of it. Both her and my step-dad both thought it
was food that had went bad and rotted while being mailed to me.

I thought it never arrived until after finding out she threw it
out.and

After getting another shipment and telling them it's supposed to look
like that, they still threw it out after making them sick and nauseous
after tasting it. Saying that it tasted like motor oil, and that I was
wrong and they could tell it was rotten from the taste of it. They
said it was the worst thing they ever tasted in their entire lives.

After getting another shipmenr, I tasted it, yes on what you're
supposed to put it on, and they were correct. It tastes like motor
oil.

But do you see meover in Australia telling all the Australians
whileI'm there that they're not allowed to eat any of the Vegemite
they like just because I don't like it and makes all the Americans I
know sick and nauseous to see them eating it?

No. If I went over there or even moved over there, I wouldn't expect
them to change their own culture and habits just because one American
non-Australian family who recently moved to Australia finds it
sickening and disgusting.

What does this have to do with ham antennas. Simple. The American
hoa did not have any rules against Americans cooking American food so
they fined the family for cooking American food under the "air
pollution" rules the hoa had.

So even if your hoa did not have any restrictions against any antennas
of any kind at all, you're still not safe since they will simply fine
you for breaking the hoa rules against "no air pollution" since it's a
"well known fact" by all the "experts" that "the mere presence of an
antenna caused RF air pollution whether you're transmitting or not"
causing everyone to get radio and tv interference and rf sickness.

I recently read posts by people in charge of hoas, and did NOT like
what I seen.

The one asked other hoa presidents "what do you do when a minority of
the homeowners want you to follow the law?"

That tells me the people in charge of hoas do not care about following
the federal, state, and locall aw theirselves, but will fine anyone
who doesn't follow the hoa "laws".

Another one in charge of hoas mentioned "that pesky U.S.
Constitution"

which tells me the same as above plus telling me that the people in
charge of hoas are communists and nazis both of whom want to
continously order people what to do in their own private lives in
their own private homes and both are traitors to the U.S., U.S.
Constitutin, and the standard American way of life that was promoted
by America's founding fathers.

And "roller skating" is NOT a threatening activity, despite what hoas
say. The kids wre going to their roller skating "classes".

When I was young, almost everyone here in the U.S. normally went
roller skating.



After I

Post by Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names
Also, you could simply knock on the door of a home in the
neighborhood, introduce yourself, find out who is the HOA president,
and ask him/her for a copy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[m***@yahoo.com]

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
 ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?
You can't here in the U.S.. It's impossible.I  can't afford a lawyer.
And legal aid always refused to help. The clerks in the courthouses
always say they're not allowed to me nor give me any papers unless I
have a lawyer because that is the courts helping me with legal matters
which is against state law. (according to them).
They say only a lawyer is allowed to file a request for copies of
those.
So just because I am not rich enough to be able to hire a lawyer,
there is NO possible way for me to find out what any HOA CC&R
restrictions are or even what any non-HOA CC&R restrictions are until
after I have already moved in and after I have already signed and
agreed to move in.
Which I haven't done yet.
And it's very possible that I could  end up with hoa restrictions like
this other ham had which he posted about last year in 2007 where the
hoa fines you for wearing the clothes you have to wear your
extracurricular activities or hobbies when you leave to go those
activities and hobbies, and fines you for what you do inside your own
house or garage, and fines you for what kind of food you eat inside
your own home.
"Looks, to me, like some reasonable efforts to limit the extreme and
unbridled power some homeowner associations have attained. When house
hunting, I encountered one that even said I couldn't change the oil in
my car inside my own garage!!"
Does your HOA have a rule about what kind of food you can cook, the
style / color of clothes you can wear, or other outlandish rules too?
I have family that once lived in a place with a HOA that levied fines
against them because their kids (my cousins) wore the usual teen - age
style clothing appropriate to the skating hobby, and a board member
viewed it as threatening.
Another fine was levied against them because they cooked and consumed
food that another family living next to them didn't like. The neighbor
went and made up some petty excuse about how it had ill effects on
them, and they were fined for non-compliance regarding "Air pollution"
in the sub-division. Until they moved, they had to cook and consume
only certain ethnic foods other than the good ole american stuff.

This fagboy is a troll...lol

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

You ask the seller for a copy before you sign the contract and the
seller has to provide it if they want to make the sale.

<snip nonsense>

[Mewhoisme]

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
 ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development. Generally they will help
you. If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City. Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.

Stay away from the Courthouse. They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

Post by radioguy
You can't here in the U.S.. It's impossible.I  can't afford a lawyer.
And legal aid always refused to help. The clerks in the courthouses
always say they're not allowed to me nor give me any papers unless I
have a lawyer because that is the courts helping me with legal matters
which is against state law. (according to them).
They say only a lawyer is allowed to file a request for copies of
those.
So just because I am not rich enough to be able to hire a lawyer,
there is NO possible way for me to find out what any HOA CC&R
restrictions are or even what any non-HOA CC&R restrictions are until
after I have already moved in and after I have already signed and
agreed to move in.
Which I haven't done yet.
And it's very possible that I could  end up with hoa restrictions like
this other ham had which he posted about last year in 2007 where the
hoa fines you for wearing the clothes you have to wear your
extracurricular activities or hobbies when you leave to go those
activities and hobbies, and fines you for what you do inside your own
house or garage, and fines you for what kind of food you eat inside
your own home.
"Looks, to me, like some reasonable efforts to limit the extreme and
unbridled power some homeowner associations have attained. When house
hunting, I encountered one that even said I couldn't change the oil in
my car inside my own garage!!"
Does your HOA have a rule about what kind of food you can cook, the
style / color of clothes you can wear, or other outlandish rules too?
I have family that once lived in a place with a HOA that levied fines
against them because their kids (my cousins) wore the usual teen - age
style clothing appropriate to the skating hobby, and a board member
viewed it as threatening.
Another fine was levied against them because they cooked and consumed
food that another family living next to them didn't like. The neighbor
went and made up some petty excuse about how it had ill effects on
them, and they were fined for non-compliance regarding "Air pollution"
in the sub-division. Until they moved, they had to cook and consume
only certain ethnic foods other than the good ole american stuff.

[radioguy]

Post by Mewhoisme
Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development.  Generally they will help
you.  If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City.  Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.,
Stay away from the Courthouse.  They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

impossible. Here, the "City Hall" and the "Courthouse" are the exact
same building.

[Mewhoisme]

Post by radioguy

Post by Mewhoisme
Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development.  Generally they will help
you.  If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City.  Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.,
Stay away from the Courthouse.  They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

impossible. Here, the "City Hall" and the "Courthouse" are the exact
same building.

Don't go to where the deeds are kept. Go to P & Z or CD. Find the
City Planner or the Building Inspector--they'll help you.

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by Mewhoisme

Post by radioguy

Post by Mewhoisme
Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development.  Generally they will help
you.  If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City.  Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.,
Stay away from the Courthouse.  They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

impossible. Here, the "City Hall" and the "Courthouse" are the exact
same building.

Don't go to where the deeds are kept. Go to P & Z or CD. Find the
City Planner or the Building Inspector--they'll help you.

Why go to all this trouble?

In most, if not all, states the seller is required to provide such
information.

[Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names]

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by radioguy

Post by Mewhoisme
Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development.  Generally they will help
you.  If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City.  Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.,
Stay away from the Courthouse.  They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

impossible. Here, the "City Hall" and the "Courthouse" are the exact
same building.

Don't go to where the deeds are kept.  Go to P & Z or CD.  Find the
City Planner or the Building Inspector--they'll help you.

Why go to all this trouble?
In most, if not all, states the seller is required to provide such
information.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim --

He posted this originally in a ham radio group. I'm a ham operator
myself and some HOA/POA CC&R place restrictions on antennas, antenna
towers, and the like -- all of which are necessary to a ham radio
operator (we consider a 50-foot steel tower with huge antennas and guy
wires, 135-foot long wire antennas, and the like to be things of
beauty -- neighbors tend to disagree :-) ). He probably wants to see
the CC&R before he decides whether or not to continue looking in that
area, so, he may not have a seller yet.

If his real estate agent does not have his head up his ass, he should
be able to get a copy for him -- ask the agent and make him earn his
commission.

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by radioguy

Post by Mewhoisme
Go to CIty Hall and talk to the Planning and Zoning Department--
sometimes called Community Development.  Generally they will help
you.  If they do not help, go to a City Council meeting and ask them
why you can't get a copy of the HOA from the City.  Council critters
generally respond to citizen's complaints.,
Stay away from the Courthouse.  They only know how to obfuscate the
situation.

impossible. Here, the "City Hall" and the "Courthouse" are the exact
same building.

Don't go to where the deeds are kept.  Go to P & Z or CD.  Find the
City Planner or the Building Inspector--they'll help you.

Why go to all this trouble?
In most, if not all, states the seller is required to provide such
information.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim --
He posted this originally in a ham radio group. I'm a ham operator
myself and some HOA/POA CC&R place restrictions on antennas, antenna
towers, and the like -- all of which are necessary to a ham radio
operator (we consider a 50-foot steel tower with huge antennas and guy
wires, 135-foot long wire antennas, and the like to be things of
beauty -- neighbors tend to disagree :-) ). He probably wants to see
the CC&R before he decides whether or not to continue looking in that
area, so, he may not have a seller yet.

If all the houses in the area of interest were built at the same time
and by the same builder, then they are likely identical, otherwise all
bets are off and two houses next to each other may have differenct CC&R.

Post by Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names
If his real estate agent does not have his head up his ass, he should
be able to get a copy for him -- ask the agent and make him earn his
commission.

You go to the seller and ask how much. If you still have interest you
ask for the CC&R. Since they are part of the sales contract, the seller
HAS to provide them.

This is not rocket science.

[W***@Ireland.com]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:10:55 -0800 (PST), radioguy

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

This is some kind of troll, right? Ask your realtor. If you don't have
one, get one. And remember, there is a huge difference between a
realtor who is a professional and a real estate agent. By law in
Illinois and most (if not all) other states, CC&R's must be made
available prior to purchase. Some associations enforce these to the
letter - others' don't. Your realtor should have this info at the time
you first view the home. If he/she doesn't - get another realtor.

WB Yeats

[radioguy]

Post by W***@Ireland.com
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:10:55 -0800 (PST), radioguy

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

This is some kind of troll, right? Ask your realtor. If you don't have
one, get one. And remember, there is a huge difference between a
realtor who is a professional and a real estate agent. By law in
Illinois and most (if not all) other states, CC&R's must be made
available prior to purchase. Some associations enforce these to the
letter - others' don't. Your realtor should have this info at the time
you first view the home. If he/she doesn't - get another realtor.
WB Yeats  

obviously, people can't read. In my state, it is illegal for anyone to
tell or give you a copy of CC&Rs before you sign the agreement to move
in unless it's a lawyer. (unaffordable for me).

And that includes realtors. If a realtor gives you a copy, he or she
has broken the law and faces jail time or legal repercussions.

A realtor would not risk going to jail by committing a crime.

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by radioguy

Post by W***@Ireland.com
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:10:55 -0800 (PST), radioguy

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

This is some kind of troll, right? Ask your realtor. If you don't have
one, get one. And remember, there is a huge difference between a
realtor who is a professional and a real estate agent. By law in
Illinois and most (if not all) other states, CC&R's must be made
available prior to purchase. Some associations enforce these to the
letter - others' don't. Your realtor should have this info at the time
you first view the home. If he/she doesn't - get another realtor.
WB Yeats  

obviously, people can't read. In my state, it is illegal for anyone to
tell or give you a copy of CC&Rs before you sign the agreement to move
in unless it's a lawyer. (unaffordable for me).
And that includes realtors. If a realtor gives you a copy, he or she
has broken the law and faces jail time or legal repercussions.
A realtor would not risk going to jail by committing a crime.

Bullshit.

All terms and conditions of a contract, including CC&Rs, must be revealed
before signing or the contract is not enforceable.

[radioguy]

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by radioguy

Post by W***@Ireland.com
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:10:55 -0800 (PST), radioguy

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

This is some kind of troll, right? Ask your realtor. If you don't have
one, get one. And remember, there is a huge difference between a
realtor who is a professional and a real estate agent. By law in
Illinois and most (if not all) other states, CC&R's must be made
available prior to purchase. Some associations enforce these to the
letter - others' don't. Your realtor should have this info at the time
you first view the home. If he/she doesn't - get another realtor.
WB Yeats  

obviously, people can't read. In my state, it is illegal for anyone to
tell or give you a copy of CC&Rs before you sign the agreement to move
in unless it's a lawyer. (unaffordable for me).
And that includes realtors. If a realtor gives you a copy, he or she
has broken the law and faces jail time or legal repercussions.
A realtor would not risk going to jail by committing a crime.

Bullshit.
All terms and conditions of a contract, including CC&Rs, must be revealed
before signing or the contract is not enforceable.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Tell that to the several people who ended up in court and lost because
of it.

[j***@specsol.spam.sux.com]

Post by radioguy

Post by j***@specsol.spam.sux.com

Post by radioguy

Post by W***@Ireland.com
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:10:55 -0800 (PST), radioguy

Post by radioguy
x-no-archive: yes
As some of you know, I  plan on moving soon, which will most likely
mean CC&R restrictions.
ButHow do  you find out what the hoa CC&R restrictions are before you
move in if you're poor?

This is some kind of troll, right? Ask your realtor. If you don't have
one, get one. And remember, there is a huge difference between a
realtor who is a professional and a real estate agent. By law in
Illinois and most (if not all) other states, CC&R's must be made
available prior to purchase. Some associations enforce these to the
letter - others' don't. Your realtor should have this info at the time
you first view the home. If he/she doesn't - get another realtor.
WB Yeats  

obviously, people can't read. In my state, it is illegal for anyone to
tell or give you a copy of CC&Rs before you sign the agreement to move
in unless it's a lawyer. (unaffordable for me).
And that includes realtors. If a realtor gives you a copy, he or she
has broken the law and faces jail time or legal repercussions.
A realtor would not risk going to jail by committing a crime.

Bullshit.
All terms and conditions of a contract, including CC&Rs, must be revealed
before signing or the contract is not enforceable.
--
Jim Pennino
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Tell that to the several people who ended up in court and lost because
of it.

"Please sign this contract.

By signing this contract you are agreeing to do a bunch of things and
follow a bunch of rules.

But we can't tell you what those things are or what the rules are until
after you sign."

Yeah, right according to the guy that doesn't have clue about such
complicated legal matters such as the difference between criminal and
civil law.