emcom wackers, you're STILL illegal

[radioguy]

emcom wackers wrote:

"Neighborhood coordinators should be equipped with General Mobile
Radio
Service (GMRS) radios when possible. As indicated, these radios can
communicate on the first 7 channels of FRS radio, plus 8 additional
frequencies. These radios have a farther effective range (typically
reliable to 2 miles in urban areas, and farther using repeater
systems). Use of these should be limited so as not to cause undue
frequency congestion."

"Since the ham operator is already involved in emergency message
relaying, he/she is most likely monitoring several other radios/
frequencies, and will potentially be receiving messages from multiple
neighborhood coordinators via the GMRS/FRS link"

nice, so you're using gmrs radios at higher power levels than frs
radios including gmrs repeaters.

I hate to tell you emcom wackers and other wackers out there this (no,
not really. ha!), but you're STILL illegal.

The FCC has already ruled you're a business.

The FCC has also alreasy ruled that business use is NOT allowed on
GMRS unless you're a grandfathered organization.

At least, business use by organizations isn't allowed.

No, this wasn't a recent ruling. This ruling has been in effect for
years.

Since you yourselves stated in the above paragraphs that you either
intend to or are using higher power GMRS, then whether you have a GMRS
license or not, you ARE illegal bubble pack pirates.

And if you're not using the bubble packs, you're STILL illegal,
period.

Dome wackers , the police type claim they do it to uphold the law
because the law must always be upheld against people breaking it
because the people breaking it must either be fined or put in jail.

Well, wackers, if you're so for upholding the law and d hate everyone
who breaks it, why are you than continually breaking it yourselves?

Well?

[radioguy]

the problem is

several neighborhoods and neighborhood watches have already appounted
certain people in their neighborhood as head og frs/gmrs in case of an
emergency, although probably not in every neighborhood.

Then along comes emcom and appounts theirselves as heads in the same
neighborhoods,

so what now happens is

in case of an emergency, the heads appointed by emcom and neighborhood
watches will be fighting and arguing over who is in charge of the
emergencies and frs/gmrs channels.

NOT a good situation, in my opinion.

Emcom should be using either the public safety channels or the
business channels.

[You]

In article

Post by radioguy
Then along comes emcom and appounts theirselves as heads in the same
neighborhoods,
so what now happens is
in case of an emergency, the heads appointed by emcom and neighborhood
watches will be fighting and arguing over who is in charge of the
emergencies and frs/gmrs channels.

as per FCC Rules, GMRS/FRS are Open Frequencies, and ALL Users MUST
yield the Frequency to Emergency Communications, on a Situation by
Situation Basis. So if one party has a "Safety of Life and Property
Situation ongoing on Frequency, then ALL OTHER Users MUST find alternate
Frequencies to use, while the SOL&P is ongoing. When the ongoing
situation is resolved, OR the local FCC EIC issues a Cease & Desist
Order, which ever comes first, then the frequency returns to an Open
Frequency, available for other communications.

There would be No fighting and arguing about who has the Frequency, as
it is Open Untill the First SOL&P Transmission, and then it stays with
that Party untill the SOL&P Issue is resolved, or a C&D Order from the
local FCC EIC, is announced.

This stuff is all resolved in the FCC Rules, already... NO harm, Ho
Foul...

[radioguy]

Post by You
In article

Post by radioguy
Then along comes emcom and appounts theirselves as heads in the same
neighborhoods,
so what now happens is
in case of an emergency, the heads appointed by emcom and neighborhood
watches will be fighting and arguing over who is in charge of the
emergencies and frs/gmrs channels.

as per FCC Rules, GMRS/FRS are Open Frequencies, and ALL Users MUST
yield the Frequency to Emergency Communications, on a Situation by
Situation Basis. So if one party has a "Safety of Life and Property
Situation ongoing on  Frequency, then ALL OTHER Users MUST find alternate
Frequencies to use, while the SOL&P is ongoing. When the ongoing
situation is resolved, OR the local FCC EIC issues a Cease & Desist
Order, which ever comes first, then the frequency returns to an Open
Frequency, available for other communications.
There would be No fighting and arguing about who has the Frequency, as
it is Open Untill the First SOL&P Transmission, and then it stays with
that Party untill the SOL&P Issue is resolved, or a C&D Order from the
local FCC EIC, is announced.
This stuff is all resolved in the FCC Rules, already... NO harm, Ho
Foul...

more proof the wackers just don't get it.

Several neighborhood watches appointed certain people as head of frs/
gmrs communications in an emergency just like the wackers did except
thery're not wacked out.

In an emergency situation, they will tell the emcom wackers to get
off the channel because "it's an emergency and FCC rules require (the
wackers) to move off frequey in an emergency since they (the appointed
head of frs/gmrs neighbrhood watch in case of emergencies) is in
charge of running the emergency communications on frs/gmrs whenever
there's an emergency.

While the emcom wackers will tell the neighborhood watch frs/gmrs
emergency head to get off the channel because it's an emergency and
FCC rules require them to move since they the self-appointed emcom
person is in charge of frs/gmrs during an emergency.

Then an argument erupts between all the emcom workers and all the
neighborhood watch people.

That IS a frequency fight.

[You]

In article
<c33ddf62-fba9-47fc-ab8b-***@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
radioguy <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey Dufus, No, you just don't get it.....

Post by radioguy
more proof the wackers just don't get it.
Several neighborhood watches appointed certain people as head of frs/
gmrs communications in an emergency just like the wackers did except
thery're not wacked out.

this isn't about who self-Appoints who, to what, it is about, who starts
the FIRST Safety of Life and Property Communication on the OPEN
Frequency, Period....

Post by radioguy
In an emergency situation, they will tell the emcom wackers to get
off the channel because "it's an emergency and FCC rules require (the
wackers) to move off frequey in an emergency since they (the appointed
head of frs/gmrs neighbrhood watch in case of emergencies) is in
charge of running the emergency communications on frs/gmrs whenever
there's an emergency.

as Stated Above, The Station who initiates the FIRST SOL&P Communication
on ANY Open Frequency, controls that frequency, untill the SOL&P Issue
is resolved, OR the local FCC-EIC issues a Cease and Desist Order, which
ever comes first, PERIOD....

Post by radioguy
While the emcom wackers will tell the neighborhood watch frs/gmrs
emergency head to get off the channel because it's an emergency and
FCC rules require them to move since they the self-appointed emcom
person is in charge of frs/gmrs during an emergency.

In the case directly above, the emcom folks would be in violation of FCC
Rules, in that they would be interfering with SOL&P Communications in
progress, and therefore would be subject to Comm-Act 1934 as Amended,
prosecution, which can levy fines and imprisonment of $10KUS and 5 Years
in Prison per violation, and each interfered with communication is a
violation.

Post by radioguy
Then an argument erupts between all the emcom workers and all the
neighborhood watch people.

Any argument that erupted would be a violation of the SOL&P
Communication in Progress Rules and subject to Enforcement Action
under Camm-Act 1934 as Amended.

Post by radioguy
That IS a frequency fight.

Nope, this is all well understood, by everyone in FCC Enforcement, and
been in place for MANY Years, but apparently not by YOU..... You need to
learn a bit more, Sonny, before you blather on about things you don't
understand....

[radioguy]

X-No-Archive: Yes

Post by radioguy
That IS a frequency fight.
Nope, this is all well understood, by everyone in FCC Enforcement, and
been in place for MANY Years, but apparently not by YOU..... You need to
learn a bit more, Sonny, before you blather on about things you don't
understand....

okay. You're correct that I don't understannd everything, but I was
basing my post on what I do know has happened in non-emergency
situations.

All across the country, emcom workers have been kicking hams off the
repeater frequencies, even if they don't own the repeater and the
simplex frequencies when no one else was talking on them, because they
"might have an emergency sometime in the future where they need that
frequency" and then saying the ham frequencies "should be assigned to
emcom use because the other hams aren't ussing them anyway." while
purposely ignoring the fact the reason the other hams aren't ussing
them anyways IS because they theirselves kicked those hams off of
those frequencies so that they could get the entire ham bands
reassigned to emcom and business use only.

Thatt is what the current argument on the internet is about.

Or at least part of what it's about.

Also, other countries have been watching the situation and called the
emcom use in ham radio "a disease peculiar to only the U.S."

They were afraid that their own countries would follow suit of their
equivalent of the grants and cause wars between the counntries, and
require hams to participate in those wars. (that's what they thought).

Now, how does that comply with the other stated main purpose of
aamateur radio, "to promote international goodwill"?

Answer: It doesn't.

The FCC was correct in it's interpretation of the rules.

Now as I undertand it,I think emcom can still use the frs
frequencies, although now I'm not sure if that's what the FCC meant by
"personal business" or not, as long as it's half a watt or less on the
correct frs channels.

They can still use CB.

They can apply for use of public safety frequencies.

But I'm not a lawyer, and as you said, don't know everything, so it's
best to check with someone who does know.

[You]

In article

Post by radioguy

Post by radioguy
That IS a frequency fight.
Nope, this is all well understood, by everyone in FCC Enforcement, and
been in place for MANY Years, but apparently not by YOU..... You need to
learn a bit more, Sonny, before you blather on about things you don't
understand....

okay. You're correct that I don't understannd everything, but I was
basing my post on what I do know has happened in non-emergency
situations.
All across the country, emcom workers have been kicking hams off the
repeater frequencies, even if they don't own the repeater and the
simplex frequencies when no one else was talking on them, because they
"might have an emergency sometime in the future where they need that
frequency" and then saying the ham frequencies "should be assigned to
emcom use because the other hams aren't ussing them anyway." while
purposely ignoring the fact the reason the other hams aren't ussing
them anyways IS because they theirselves kicked those hams off of
those frequencies so that they could get the entire ham bands
reassigned to emcom and business use only.

Unless the emcom Worker is licensed as a Ham, he is in violation of the
CFR47Part97 just by transmitting on any Frequency listed in Part 97.
Then if he is a Licensed Ham, he would be in Violation of the CommACT
of 1934 as Amended, for initiating a SOL&P Communication where none
existed, OR, interfering with an ongoing communication in progress.
Either one is prosecutable. These so-called emcomm folks, apparently
don't know the CommAct of 1934, or FCC Rules very well, or they wouldn't
be making such STUPID assertions. This all seems like a paranoid
delusion, only in your mind, as it isn't a problem in most other places
around the country.

Post by radioguy
That is what the current argument on the internet is about.
Or at least part of what it's about.
Also, other countries have been watching the situation and called the
emcom use in ham radio "a disease peculiar to only the U.S."
They were afraid that their own countries would follow suit of their
equivalent of the grants and cause wars between the counntries, and
require hams to participate in those wars. (that's what they thought).
Now, how does that comply with the other stated main purpose of
aamateur radio, "to promote international goodwill"?
Answer: It doesn't.
The FCC was correct in it's interpretation of the rules.
Now as I undertand it,I think emcom can still use the frs
frequencies, although now I'm not sure if that's what the FCC meant by
"personal business" or not, as long as it's half a watt or less on the
correct frs channels.

These self-appointed emcomm folks you talk about, can use FRS, as
covered under the Blanket FRS License in the USA. they may also apply
for and receive a GMRS License for their outfit and use that as well,
once licensed.

Post by radioguy
They can still use CB.

Yes, they also can use the Part 95 Frequencies under that Blanket
License in the USA.

Post by radioguy
They can apply for use of public safety frequencies.

In order to use Part 90 frequencies they would need to apply for and
receive a license for a particular Radio Service Listed in Part 90.

Business Radio Service would be available to them, with just an
application, filed.

Any Public Safety, Fire, Local Government, or EMS Radio Service Licenses
would need to be applied for, BY the local Government, and then these
folks, could be users under the local Government License.

They might just sneak in by trying the Special Emergency Radio Service,
IF they could somehow convince the FCC Licensing Folks that they can meet
the requirements of that Radio Service. I think that would be a REAL
Stretch, however, knowing the FCC Licensing folks, as I do....

Post by radioguy
But I'm not a lawyer, and as you said, don't know everything, so it's
best to check with someone who does know.

Being a reTired FCC Field Agent, and doing FCC License Consulting for
the last 40 years, I do know SOME of the Policies in question.....

[MNMikeW]

Post by You
In article

Post by radioguy
Then along comes emcom and appounts theirselves as heads in the same
neighborhoods,
so what now happens is
in case of an emergency, the heads appointed by emcom and neighborhood
watches will be fighting and arguing over who is in charge of the
emergencies and frs/gmrs channels.

as per FCC Rules, GMRS/FRS are Open Frequencies, and ALL Users MUST
yield the Frequency to Emergency Communications, on a Situation by
Situation Basis. So if one party has a "Safety of Life and Property
Situation ongoing on Frequency, then ALL OTHER Users MUST find alternate
Frequencies to use, while the SOL&P is ongoing. When the ongoing
situation is resolved, OR the local FCC EIC issues a Cease & Desist
Order, which ever comes first, then the frequency returns to an Open
Frequency, available for other communications.
There would be No fighting and arguing about who has the Frequency, as
it is Open Untill the First SOL&P Transmission, and then it stays with
that Party untill the SOL&P Issue is resolved, or a C&D Order from the
local FCC EIC, is announced.
This stuff is all resolved in the FCC Rules, already... NO harm, Ho
Foul...

more proof the wackers just don't get it.
==================================

Waaaaaaaaaaa, I'm a victim.

[MNMikeW]

Post by radioguy
"Neighborhood coordinators should be equipped with General Mobile
Radio
Service (GMRS) radios when possible. As indicated, these radios can
communicate on the first 7 channels of FRS radio, plus 8 additional
frequencies. These radios have a farther effective range (typically
reliable to 2 miles in urban areas, and farther using repeater
systems). Use of these should be limited so as not to cause undue
frequency congestion."
"Since the ham operator is already involved in emergency message
relaying, he/she is most likely monitoring several other radios/
frequencies, and will potentially be receiving messages from multiple
neighborhood coordinators via the GMRS/FRS link"
nice, so you're using gmrs radios at higher power levels than frs
radios including gmrs repeaters.
I hate to tell you emcom wackers and other wackers out there this (no,
not really. ha!), but you're STILL illegal.

Fuck off

[radioguy]

the problem is

several neighborhoods and neighborhood watches have already appounted
certain people in their neighborhood as head og frs/gmrs in case of an
emergency, although probably not in every neighborhood.

Then along comes emcom and appounts theirselves as heads in the same
neighborhoods,

so what now happens is

in case of an emergency, the heads appointed by emcom and neighborhood
watches will be fighting and arguing over who is in charge of the
emergencies and frs/gmrs channels.

NOT a good situation, in my opinion.

Emcom should be using either the public safety channels or the
business channels.